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Originally posted by PU lighitng:
I received a demo of the design 108 today and I have to say that I was surprised to see that it has the same 8 programs as the design 36. It also had half of the red LEDs out no lenses and no DMX input cable??

Did you ever get this fixture working? What are your thoughts? I am debating on some new wash fixtures for my light rig and can't decide between Design 36 (already have 8), Colorado 1's, Tri64B's or something else.
You are correct bdunard in the fact that the Colorado is brighter then a DLED36 do to lack of a diffusion filter. I did a side by side of an Opti RGB and a DLED36 and the Opti was brighter, but had a much smaller beam then the DLED36.

As far as DLED36 vs Tri64B, they might be about even at the same beam size do to the fact that the DLED uses Luxeons and the Tri64B doesn't. Luxeons are some of the best LEDs you can get, and are priced accordingly. They have a higher output per watt than other 'generic' LEDs. The Luxeon K2s in the DLED108 are even better, hence why they are more then 3 times brighter at exactly 3 times the power, given same beam size, vs a DLED36.

Also, while on the subject of lenses, wasn't Elation suppose to release different lenses for the DLED36? This would make it more comparable with the Coemar Par Lite LED then. I heard this but never saw anything come of it. John, maybe you can help me out on this one?
Thanks for the info. I am looking to add some wash fixtures to my new stage. I have truss with 6 Elation DLED 36's uplighting an Austrian sewn backdrop, I have added 6 of the new TriBrick LED's as eye candy on the rear truss. Now I just need to get rid of my Source 4's with color changers. I am keeping to S4's to light the singers up front but would like to add 2 to 3 LED wash fixtures on each tree to wash the band (9 piece band). I've been recommended everything. I would like to be in the $3K to $4K for all the fixtures. I actually thought about the new Design Panel 72IP but I could only afford two...and I don't know if that would do it. The 108IP looks promising as well but I would need 6 and that puts it out of my price range. The Chauvet Colorado 1's and 3's look nice but the 30 degree lens for the Colorado 1 is about $80 extra! If you have any other thoughts I would love to hear them!
I think your best bet would probably to go with DLED36s since they come stock with the 39 degree beam angle. You can also get roughly 2 for the price of one DLED108.

Have you looked at the Opti RGB with lens kit? This might be an option since it is cheaper then the DLED36s, with the lens kit.

Here is another idea, look at the Opti 30 RGB. You should be able to get between 10-15 at that price range. You can use those 10-15 Opti 30s to replace the DLED36s for your back drop wash and move the DLEDs up front for front wash. The Opti 30 RGBs won't be nearly as punchy as a DLED36 and have a smaller beam size, but the bang for the buck is great on these things.

I have some shots of a DLED36 vs a Opti 30 RGB if you would like me to post them so you can get an idea.
That would be great if you could post the pics!

I think I might go with either a TriBrick or a TriPar.

I can't really go with anything less bright on my backdrop. I might keep my DLED 36's on the backdrop and just buck up and pay for the TriPars or TriBrick's for my wash. I am going to borrow a TriPar can and compare it to my TriBrick and DLED 36. I might even get a Colorado 3 since it is in the same price range.
I really want to go with something brighter for washes. I know the DLED 36's would get it done but they aren't quite Pars 500's yet. I compared the TriPar 64 to a S4 575W and there is still a good amount of distance between them. I also want to to try an LED fixture that has RGBAW. I do mostly a rock/funk show so I don't need great pastels but you never know.
Ok bdunard, here are the shots. Sorry it took a while to do, been really busy.

First is white. The Opti 30 RGB on the left and DLED36 on the right. The target is about 5 feet away.

As you can see, the DLED 36 is brighter, though not by much. The beam is also bigger, as would be expected in 25 degree angle vs 39 degree angle.

Next is red.

Then green.

And lastly blue.

One interesting thing I learned while doing this, the Opti 30 RGB is much better at matching the gel colors in the gel selector then the DLED 36 is on the Road Hog. The DLED36 had a knack for being brighter then it should, meaning too much white. It also on some colors was completely off, like R332, R96, and R57 just as a few examples.

I have also done this vs a S4 ParNel lamped with a 750w extended life lamp and went color for color on the Hog's gel picker. The DLED 36 keeps up just fine, against a 575w extended life lamp, it should be on about the same level.

PS: Sorry about photo quality, forgot my camera at home and used the camera phone instead.
Thanks for the pics!

Does the Design 36 have the plastic diffusion plate in it?

Also, I compared a 575W S4 to a design 36 and the S4 is brighter on some colors (yellows, oranges, whites, etc...) but the DLED 36 makes a much more
"dense" red, green, blue, pink, and teal. So I thought maybe getting the 3W DLED 108IP might be a better deal (wider beam and a bit brighter) compared to a DLED 26 without diffusion. However, after doing a show this weekend I have noticed that the musicians perceive the DLED 36 as much brighter at the source than a conventional fixture. I can only get the fixtures so high so I wondered if getting the 3W DLED 108IP would be too bright and cause the players to squint? I am trying to find a 108IP here locally to demo but no luck as of yet.
Yes it does. I am still wondering if they are going to make different plates for them like Coemar has for their ParLite LED series, which is the direct comparison to Elation's DLED36.

I have actually found that musicians love the LEDs over conventionals do to the lack of heat. They also love that I can get 'high' powered lights into a space with little to no power and not have to worry about tripping breakers.

The nice part when someone thinks something is too bright, dim it. And then when you need the punch, it is there.

On that note, running conventionals at around 75-80% over 100% greatly increases lamp life. If you as are bumping them, try leaving them on at about 5-10%. No one can see it glowing, but it helps the lamp with the sudden in rush currents associated with bumping, again helping lamp life. Bumping lamps from off to full on to off again is one of the worst things you can do with lamps. Sorry for the little side comment.
Depends on what they are fighting against. When I used them for a back wash on the set for Assassins, they were fine. In dark bars, they are also fine when using other LEDs, 250w movers, 500w\600w pars and/or S4 Pars lamped 575w or Opti Pars lamped 575w. Generally, all these things are back, side, and/or ground effects and the DLED36s light the stage just fine from the front.

When pitting them against S4 lekos from anything more then 20-25', forget it. No lenses mean you can't get the beams narrow enough to punch like the S4s can. At that point I start looking at 26 degree lenses. The 39 degree angle of the DLED36 is to spread out which causes a lower intensity and also no control, nor a way to mount barn doors on them like their Coemar cousins to get control.

Now if you are trying to do a bigger stage with less from that distance, maybe. But I at that point would not use the DLED36s in favor of some S4 lekos, cheaper to rent means more for the money. If they had the money, I might use them, though would look more towards the DLED108 at that point for more punch over the same area.
I get what your saying. The problem I am running into now is if I should just go with a S4 par for the front wash lighting. If I do this I still need an LED light to add color when the S4's are off...this looks great when the singers aren't don't want them lit with a bright wash but you don't want them in the dark either. I wanted to find one fixture per side that would give me color and a good white wash. I bought the DLED 36WA but it doesn't give me a very good white. I thought about a CMY Zoom 250 but I don't know if it is going to give me enough output. I would love to go the LED route but I really feel like I am going to need a fixture that has RGB, and white and amber LED's. The only thing that I have found is the Martin Stagebar. What would you use to get really good white wash's and colors in the same fixture? Keep in mind it has to mount on a 2" aluminum bar on an Applied crank lift (the CMY Zoom's would make the bar much heavier on one side compare to the DLED 36's). Thanks for all of your input, I really appreciate it!
Have you ever tried tricking the LEDs into the white you want? What I mean is, if I want a more 3200k white, I drop out some blue and a little green and run the red full up. If I want a more 5600k, I drop some red out.

This lowers the total output of the light in 'white'. However, it gets me what I want out of the LEDs without the need for white and amber LEDs. More LEDs means more money as well as a larger unit physically. One of the great advantages to LEDs is that they are small yet powerful. Start having RGBWA LEDs, and you take away the small part. It also means the need for more control channels, which sometimes isn't a problem and sometimes is.
I have played with the color temp using the parameters that you described. It just doesn't seem to work as well as an S4 with a "flesh" tone gel. I thought the ambers might get me there, but I have no real world experience with them. Have you ever worked with a CMY Zoom 250? Do you think this would be brighter the the DLED 108IP?
Doubtful. If the Impression run about 180w worth of LEDs can go color for color to a 575w discharge, I think the DLED108 will edge out over a 250w discharge.

250/575=.43; 108/180=.6. I know the math isn't as simple as that thanks to differences in the color temperatures of the discharge lamps, but it gets the general idea across. The DLED108 in theory will be about 20% brighter color for color over the 250w.

Things to remember about the higher color temperature of the 250w lamp is that it won't do reds and ambers as well as the LEDs. It will be best at doing blues since the temperature will be blue in nature.
Last edited by serraava

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