Economy minded lighting install- House of Worship

Church is traditional for the most part so I'm not looking at tons of moving heads, strobes, or such.

Client needs to feature the pulpit (front center of riser), band will grow over time and will be spaced stage left and stage right. Choir of course goes on the risers (steps) center/rear.

Two 3500 lumens projectors will be mounted facing the angled upper walls on the left and right. (portion of upper wall with only 1 stud showing) Fixed screen will pretty much take up every bit of that opening between the beams.

Stage is 42' wide and 20' deep.
27' from stage to peak of roof.
13.5' from stage to beam at far left and far right of stage.

you need advice on lights? or do you have that planned out already? i got nothing for mounting. perhaps ibeam truss?

This is a view across the stage.

The choir is about 3' behind the overhead beam.

The pulpit is around 7' behind the next beam.

No electrical has been run but I'm tempted to just have them pull me 2 legs of power up each beam with outlets every 6-10'.

If I can go LED then their will be little draw on this at the breaker box.

Overhead choir mics are coming down and being replaced with Audix microboom mics.

Florescent fixtures and flood lamps are coming down too.

Angled studded wall on top right is where one of the projector's fixed screens will go. Projector will mount approx. 4-5' down from the beam above.

Well one thing you could do if you wanted to be sneaky is get the stage color led cans. or check out the Design LED series stuff. i like the DLED head. i assume controller is again 1024EC Compu Live?

quote:

Originally posted by jingles:
you need advice on lights? or do you have that planned out already? i got nothing for mounting. perhaps ibeam truss?

Due to the budget constraints on this system I'm at a loss fixture wise.
Whether I can do this with some strategically placed Pars (and have them add on more as the choir and band grow) and some LED wall wash fixtures. I'm just not sure.

quote:

Originally posted by jingles:
Well one thing you could do if you wanted to be sneaky is get the stage color led cans. or check out the Design LED series stuff. i like the DLED head. i assume controller is again 1024EC Compu Live?

This one?
http://www.elationlighting.com/product.asp?ProductIDNum...9&cat=LED%20Lighting

YEP. you can try some ADJ LED wash fixtures. ADJ is a sister company of ours. but you probably know that.

Look at these
http://www.americandj.com/product.asp?ProductIDNumber=1650&cat=L.E.D.

YES!

There is a store down the highway from one of ours (we currently have three stores) that caters to DJs and home theater which carries AMdj gear.
His showroom is really too bright to showcase the LED fixtures- but I only stepped in for a few minutes last week.. First time since Katrina flooded him out.

I gotta get Tony to speed up becoming an Elation dealer!

All of the shots I took at the Church last week:
http://www.rainontheinternet.com/Emanuel%20Baptist/

you know you might just have to screw or bolt these lights into the beams. if i get bored later i can write out a recommended product spec aheet for ya. lol with links. sincerely,

quote:

Originally posted by jingles:
you know you might just have to screw or bolt these lights into the beams. if i get bored later i can write out a recommended product spec aheet for ya. lol with links. sincerely,

Excellent!- see you are a night owl too

Yes, I was leaning towards putting a dark steel plate on the congregation side and bolting clean thru the beams for heavier lights.
And lag bolts for any feather weight ones.

Of course I always have a supply of closed eye bolts and aircraft wire if anything doesn't ship with a safety cable.

Placement seems wide open at the time -
Key lights 45 out and 45 up (as close to the standard as possible) for the pulpit. One per side to start.
Hate to go TOO high with anything that might require aiming or adjusting. We will use an articulating boom lift to install these but will try to mount everything within reach of a ladder for future church maintenance.

Wondering if some of the wash fixtures would give a general stage wash from above the choir.

Yup i am a night owl. tell you what i can make 3D representations of both of these stages to kind of give you a peak at what it might look like. but i will need height width and depth dimensions of both stages. i can get started on the other stage as it is completed and post pics. i can start doin this sometime tomorrow. it will take a little while but i like to do it! also you will need to make sure you pick LED lights that have enough lumen output so that way they dont wash out before they reach their target. sincerely,

Are you willing to hang truss/pipe or are you looking to hide more of the fixtures/go more low profile and follow the contour of the roof?

quote:

Originally posted by jingles:
Yup i am a night owl. tell you what i can make 3D representations of both of these stages to kind of give you a peak at what it might look like. but i will need height width and depth dimensions of both stages. i can get started on the other stage as it is completed and post pics. i can start doin this sometime tomorrow. it will take a little while but i like to do it! also you will need to make sure you pick LED lights that have enough lumen output so that way they dont wash out before they reach their target. sincerely,

Thanks James - Yes, I started looking at programs like WYSYWYG but they just don't fit the budget at this time. Will try to get those dimensions to you today.
Rain

quote:

Originally posted by LighTech:
Are you willing to hang truss/pipe or are you looking to hide more of the fixtures/go more low profile and follow the contour of the roof?

With this church staying more traditional, I'd say truss would be too much. I might be able to get away with inch and a half to 2 inch pipe if several fixtures need to be mounted side by side.

What were you thinking?

Hate to say it on an Elation forum, but here it goes. Have you looked into Source Four HID fixtures? They are a standard Source Four leko but with a ballast lamp, which lasts 12,000 hours. Also draw very little power as well, 1.5 amps. The output is the same as a regular S4 Leko, just much longer lamp life so you don't have to go to the fixture, just set and forget. At 12,000 hours, it can stay on for 500 days straight, 24/7.

You had mentioned mounting lights lower, problem with that is the lights end up more in the eyes of the presenters, which then then ask you to turn them down so they can see the audience, after which the audience complains they can't see the presenter real well, or they look like they are in the dark. Vicious cycle, corporate av can be a real pain. The way you solve this is getting the lights higher and on more of an angle, so they aren't in the eyes as much.

I would also look into the possibility of white fixtures, so they don't stand out as much, and look a little better in a church setting then black or silver do, since they will be seen. You should also look into mounting the fixtures on the stage side of the i-beam instead of underneath, so they aren't seen as much.

As far as LEDs go, LEDs from a distance lose intensity faster then normal lamped fixtures. Also, frosting LEDs to get a bigger beam has the same effect. For up lighting they are great, for washes, unless you have a ton of money to spend, and you stated you don't, I would stay away from them, as the price vs performance just isn't there yet. I just finished a shoot out between an Opti 30 RGB, a DLED 36 RGB, and a S4 ParNel. Did a lot of math, have photos, etc. If you would like to hear about it, I would be glad to post it.

The other nice part about conventional fixtures is that with Opti Pars, S4 Pars, and S4 Lekos, you can change lenses depending on your application. For more distance, a narrower lens, or if you want to highlight something from up close. For washes from up close, wide lens. Lekos are the same way, you can even get zoom lekos or S4 ParNel which are just like Opti Zooms. A lot of neat things you can do. Another big thing is cabling, because it's not cheap in the least, so be sure to think about that.

Sorry for the long post, but if you would like more info or have anymore questions, I would be more then happy to post some more info and/or answer any more questions.

Here is another project I'm working on too:
http://forums.elationlighting.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/35...551061993#8551061993

Thanks for the info on the Source Four lights. Had looked at the LEKO version but not the HID.

Appreciate the reminder of "lights in the eyes" syndrome. I will indeed need to mount these further up the beam.
Also toying with the idea of a small follow spot.

Serra i will ask you to remove your link to the HID. you may mention other company's products but i just don't appreciate direct linking. ok? sincerely,

Thank you Serra. you understand what i mean though? im sure ETc wouldn't appreciate me going on their forums and posting liks to the elation site now would they? sincerely,

Follow spots are great, but again, unless you can get them up high, it looks like the person/s you are spotting are a deer/s in a headlight, and the eyes. Just not a look I like coming from a theatre background. I also frost my spots to get rid of the hard edge, so it looks more like a highlighting leko.

Sorry jingles, link removed.

Lol, you would be surprised then. I have done it a few times on other forums, but I respect your wishes and reasoning. No hard feelings m8.

quote:

Originally posted by SerraAva:
Lol, you would be surprised then. I have done it a few times on other forums, but I respect your wishes and reasoning. No hard feelings m8.

Ok - so its ok to discuss or mention other products but hot linking is a no-no.

Thanks again Serra. Rain here is the e-mail of a sales guy for both acclaim and elation products shoot him an e-mail and he will get back to you soon.
michaelg@elationlighting.com
also e-mail me for the info of you local elation rep aswell ok? jamesk@elationlighting.com

quote:

Originally posted by SerraAva:
You had mentioned mounting lights lower, problem with that is the lights end up more in the eyes of the presenters, which then then ask you to turn them down so they can see the audience, after which the audience complains they can't see the presenter real well, or they look like they are in the dark.

With the height of the beams and the fact that they are only 7' in front of the pulpit, do you think I could mount at least half way down the beam and not be blinding the pastor?

I believe that would be fine. Will there be two pulpits or one? Also, locations. The angle looks good, just remember the harsher the angle, the more spill to the center and sides of the stage you will have. Also don't forget to light from both sides, don't want half of the speaker to be in the dark.

You can also do one light straight on, it will just give a long face look and look flat. With the steep angle down, you will get more of that, but it might be easier on the eyes. Your eye brows are actually there to help block and absorb light. This is why athletes put the black grease under their eyes to increase this effect.

There are a lot of different ways of doing it. A good idea would be to grab a couple of lights, and play with angles and positions. Just get a ladder or lift, plug them into the wall and have someone/s stand on stage and look at it. Then stand there yourself and see how the light effects your eyes and ask others the same. Just remember that the light is on full, and you will be able to dim it with dimmers, so this is worst case. Grab some neutral density to dumb down the light while it is just plugged in, or make a homemade dimmer with a dimmer switch from Home Depot or Lowes. With this, you will know what works best. Without physically seeing the space, I can't give an exact yes or no because photos can lie.

Thanks Serra -

Looking from the central pulpit (far as I know, only one), a truer 45 up, 45 out would put the lighting another beam out over the congregation.
It's 7' from the pulpit to the first forward beam.
Then its almost 20' from the pulpit to the 2nd beam out.
new pics coming in a second

Current lighting is indoor spots as seen here (front lights) and there are also a few florescent fixtures over the choir attached to the beam above.