Where do you get lighting ideas

Well you are more than welcome to take a look at some of my videos. hopefully they can inspire you.
www.youtube.com/jingles8302

youy may not like the music but any major pop tour in the last 10 years will do for inspiration. Why cause they usually have HUGE lighting rigs with really cool cues and looks.
Search you tube for anything. creed, Britney spears, N'sync,Rush, Metallica. Just go into search mode. And do any of those names and then search live in concert etc etc.
good luck and have fun.
P.s. Listening to the music helps a lot. Or any music. A lot of us when programming booths for our trade shows will listen to music when we program our booths.

Sincerely,

Thanks for the response James. I'll do as you suggest.

When you mentioned "Huge lighting rigs" you touched on a problem I've had with trying to get ideas from watching big name acts. The lighting equipment they use is SOOOOOOOOOOO extensive that its seems there is little common with what might be effective for a local band. I can add a few lights to my rig, but it will never hold a candle to the rigs used by big name bands.

My question should have been: Where do people get ideas to effectively light a local band using a fairly basic set of lights?

I'm sure your answer will be helpful, but any suggestions I can get to find ideas for small applications would be great.

Hobson

Well my whole thing is i see how it works on a big rig and then i try to apply it to my small rig and yet still make it look good and make changes. "copy" so to speak. It's a great way to learn and create your own ideas. not to toot my own horn here but I have never had more than 2-3 lights at my disposal at any given time and the stuff I do I have been said I can make 2 lights look cool.
It's really just play play and then play some more. I know I get all my ideas by watching what others have done. This is really apparent in a lot of my you tube videos.

Let me give you one other example. There is a member on the ADJ forums that uses my dmx, ADJ's lighting software package. He hired me to program a bunch of scenes for him remotely for use with his bands first gig out with their new lighting. They only had about 8-12 led par cans and 2 design spot 250's. And since then he still uses parts of my show I programmed for him and he also creates his own and he is now in a higher demand for his lighting rig and programming in his area then he was before. Again I hope this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Sincerely,

It is a lot of trail and error. Try different things, different angles, different setups, color combinations, etc.

Also look places like jingles said. A lot of ideas are just someone's tweaked or modified slightly. Taking a small idea and making it larger or a large idea and making it smaller are two easy examples.

I agree. If it works big, it can work small.

For example, if a very high end moving head spot-type fixture works good for a big touring show, then a significantly more affordable and smaller fixture will also work. In this case, we're scaling down the fixture in size and output, which equates to scaling down price.

Large shows also have to use large amounts of cans(if they are using cans, many are using movers only these days). They have to throw further and be more wattage. To ensure sufficient lighting and brightness or to cover a larger zone, more lights are needed. But on small stages, a single can might do the trick quite nicely. Plus, a touring grade can seems to be a but more rugged than the typical ones you see from ADJ(no offense intended), mainly to handle the rigors of the road. And, with multiple lights with multiple gels, lighting rigs start to get big fast to hold all that stuff. So, maybe a single LED can that can do infinte colors via RGB(OK it's not totally infinite) would be the way to go per location.

You have to realize that these big shows are in fact in this for the money, and not only are large dollars put in, but large dollars are put out. Ticket prices can be influence in production costs.

Michael Jackson, on his Dangerous tour, had his production cots so high that he pretty much guaranteed he couldn't make any money if he expected people to shell out REASONABLE ticket prices. Instead of raising costs(which he could have and at least turned a slight profit or break even), he chose to eat the losses.

You're doing the bar band thing. You don't need to spend a zillion bucks to have a decent lighting rig. Even with the modest rig you have, you have the capability of putting on a decent lighting show. With fewer fixtures, you have to be more creative, but since you're also using LED lights that can do RGB mixing, that gets you over a lot of color restriction hurdles as well.

As stated, the two biggest things are to observe and then trial and error.

Thanks all for the comments. They are all very helpful.

After spending much time on Youtube looking at Jingles's work and the results of searches for "local bands," etc., I've got some ideas. With a great deal of trial and mostly error, I'm going to have something ready to go this Tuesday night for our first show with a controlled light "show." [In an earlier post I mistakenly said that the show was on 5/2, it is on 5/4.]

Even though I'm staying fairly basic -with a few exceptions, only one or two scenes (back and forth) in a show, minimum strobing, and the ability to punch in either the Aggressors and a halogen flood from behind the band), it looks tremendously better than the couple of flashing light poles we had before.

Jingles: I could justify going to the trouble of adding a computer to my rig if I could trigger the appropriate light show with midi and the programming were less time consuming. It looks like My DMX is the entry level to this process. I knoq I would really like the simulation aspect of the software. Am I right to conclude that one of the Elation 1024 controllers has more profiles, presets, more flexibility and better for moving lights than My DMX, i.e., it is easier to use and much more capable? I know it is overkill for my light system now, but I'm planning to add moving light in the future and am willing to pay for ease of use and extra capabilites that I might actually use.

Do you work with the 1024 units as well? What are your general thoughts as to what I would gain by stepping up to the 1024.

Thanks,

Hobson

Jingles,

In the last post I referred to the Elastion 1024, I should have asked about the 2048s as well.

Thanks,

Hobson

Well if you really want to go top of the line with elation for computer lighting software I would go with a 2048Fc. however we are releasing new software and new interfaces to our compu live range of products within 2 months. so you may want to wait. and you are correct to assume compu live will be better for your rig down the line. Hope this helps.
Sincerely,

You want to know what passes for an $800/night light shouw around here? Some idiot with 2 poles, 4 Par64's per pole running a pre-programmed pattern from the factory, and randomly gel'ed. That's what passes for a light show were I live, and then they'll pay a buttload of money for a crappy band and horrific sound. I can work with better bands, bring better ligthts and still hit those budget marks!

Well, MyDMX is entry level. When you get time after your gig, download it and play with it. If any Compu packages offer the same capabilities, do the same thing. I like the MyDMX product, it works very well for me. BUT, it doens't mean that it's the right product for everyone. With some of your ideas, which by the way are all fairly reasonable and realistic(nothing really out of the ordinary), maby a Compu product might be the way to go.

Of the scenes in the "big show" I am working on, only one scene really gave me a super big headache. Multiple times(For reasons that were partially my fault, like choosing the wrong side of the stage). I have a mover going back and forth as if a beacon, with one side of the stage lit 100% in a specific color. At some point, this side dims to 50%, while the other side comes from 0-100%. It took a lot of manual programming to get it all done in MyDMX, but the results are great.

Sure, it would be nice to have a mover sequence happening, then maybe let that run while I change color washes when doing live bands.

For what I do, I definately see markets and applications for different products, thus requiring me to maybe get a Compu product soon. MyDMX can be my software for raves and quick shows, where maybe Compu can be for more complicated shows. And for anything super simple, I can program up my DMX Operator and have a third option!

One thing to think about is that MyDMX is simple to use, but with that simplicity may be limitations, but then again, those may be strengths during a live show, especially since you gotta play keys and handle lights. Compu seems to me to be more oriented to a dedicated lighting guy because of all the features. Right now, I want to play with Compu, but I have other things that are priority and will stay that way until after May 22nd.

Don't forget to video record your show and learn from what worked and what didn't.

Thanks Chris,

Points all well made and taken.

I'm as ready as I'm going to get for the show tonight. I've got a video camera ready to go, I hope I'm not too embarassed by what it shows me tomorrow!

Hobson

Lol, $800 day doesn't even get me and the Pig for a 10 hours depending on client. For some it would, but those are grandfathered in.

Seems like you are on the right track though Hobson. Thinking about what you would like to add down the line and setting yourself up for those additions. A lot of people jump in and buy something that works for them now but not latter. Then they often times complain about the fact that they didn't take the same precautions you are taking.

With that in mind, I am sure you will be just fine. I would also take jingles advice and wait for the new software and dongles to come out since the new software isn't backwards compatible with the old dongles.

I agree Take my advice. Thanks Serra. haha.

SerraAva: All I can say is the Sacramento area really has a long way to go. There are a lot of people willing to pay premiums, but most people don't get the difference between a DJ and a sound production company. As a result, they don't understand lights and what they are truly getting until it's too late.

Hobson:
I would take Jingles advise a step further. I definately agree now is not the time to buy. Plus, new software means bugs(sorry, seen it a thousand times, very rare to have exceptions), which means that even more wait time is in order.

I would say wait 4-6 months. I know it's not a massive amount of time. During this time, you can see your current light show, see where you want to go(fixtures and software), and research controllers to use with your software. At the same time, you're still learning and gaining experience.

Also, think about what SerraAva said about planning ahead, which you're already on the right track with. I started with the DMX Operator, which worked fine for me for 6-7 years, then MyDMX entered the picture. Now, a mere 3 years later, Compu is a product being considered. Seems like I may have wasted some money here and there, but who hasn't? Then again, I don't see any money being wasted. Each product still has a specific application.

Play, learn, research.

OK. I'll wait on the switch to software.

My first effort using the new lights and Magic 260 was Tuesday night. Of course there were a few glitches, but in all I was pleased with the results. [I'm sure I would have had fewer glitches had one of my keyboards not gone nuts - completely unusable. I had to reprogram my other two keyboards between sound check and performance to get by. Using the slapped together setup required a lot of attention and fiddling that I had hoped to devote to the light show. But the lights were awesome compared to what we had before.]

I've learned a lot from watching the video you suggested I take. One of the most important lessons was that I need to figure out how to disable the auto brightness feature on the camera. The video makes it look like the in-between-songs scene was about as bright as the song scenes - while in reality they were very different. This tells me that the video is not really showing me the actual dynamics of the light show. Nevertheless, what it does show is very instructive.

Thanks for all your help.

Hobson

All the more reason to have a computer nearby for showtime.

When I toured, we'd have all the synths and drum modules backed up by dumping the SysEx to a software package(such as Cakewalk or MasterTracks Pro) via MIDI. With copies on floppy, hard drive and CD-R(back when it was expensive!) and memory cards(and 2 of every kind of back-up), we were well set in the event of failure, which fortunately never happened at that level. In the event of failure(assuming the unit will still boot), we had a document showing how to factory default all the units, plus notes showing us what channel we used for the SysEx dump.

For me, since I need stuff visible, I don't want to disable the iris setting on my cameras. On my nice pro gear, I simply move the iris switch on the lens to "M" for manual and that's it, all done. On my consumer camera, I don't think I have this option, but I'm not sure. Can't find the manual right now.

On the plus side, you still have usable footage. Video with lights is an art unto itself. What our eyes will work with, sometimes the camera doesn't. At least overall, except for the keyboard thing, it's nice to hear all went well.

Allow me to tell you about the keyboard going nuts to see if you have any ideas as to what could have caused the problem.

I can identify only one difference between this gig and all the other gigs (many of which were at the same venue) where the keyboards worked fine: the new lighting system. I think I ruled out the lighting system as the culprit by unplugging the controller and all the lights after the problem appeared, and still having the keyboard problem - but who knows?

I had with me an SD card with all the global/patch/combi/AIFF settings and files for the keyboard that was having and causing the problems, a Korg TR-61 - a keyboard I've used the longest and really love. I reinstalled everything into the TR to no avail. The sound coming out of it was awful (like the most severe rotary speaker effect you've ever heard with massive reverb, but with little volume).

No sound was coming from my Motif ES Rack module. I looked at the global settings of the Motif and saw the volume level rapidly swinging back forth from 0 to 10, back to 0. It was unreal!

I rebooted the Motif and during the boot sequence the screen stopped and said something like "MIDI Error."

My midi stream goes from the TR to the Motif ES Rack. I took the TR out of the midi string and rebooted the Motif - at which point the Motif started working normally.

I disconnected the midi feeds into and out of the TR and reinstalled the settings. It still sounded awful. That's when I decided to reprogram the Korg M50 and Motif to cover for the non-functioning TR.

Wierdest of all, the next morning, I set my sytem up in my garage, plugged it in and everything worked fine. I plugged in the Magic 260 and a few lights. Everything continued to work fine.

My only guess is that there was some kind of noise in the AC power that affected the TR. I have already ordered a Furman P-1800 PF Power Conditioner, but I'm dreading that something else caused the problem and I will run into it again.

I'm going to post something in the Korg Forum, but I'd welcome any suggestions - especially from Chris.

Hobson

Well, all I can say is I like Korg gear. I have plenty.

Korg nano KONTROL, KEY, PAD.
DS-8(considered to be the better keyboard to the Yamaha DX-7, but didn't get the respect!)
M3-R(stripped down original M1-R) with RE-1 editor
Wavestation SR
DDD-5 drum machine
KMX-112 12-channel keyboard mixer
and I think some other Korg stuff, including pedals.

So, I can say I like Korg.

My initial thoughts were, "gee, this sounds like a power issue". You're also lucky you didn't lose your SD card. Make a copy of that ASAP.

Now you have to look at other things around you.

You're using all LED lighting. Good. But, LED lighting has a tendency to be electrically noisy. It's to the point where many tours using large LED walls were complaining that the RF generated by these big assemblies was causing drop-outs and interference with WIFI networking(you'd be sickened to see how much they are relying on unreliable technology these days), wireless IEM's and wireless mics. I won't go into some of the more amusing solutions to resolve these problems outside of saying sometimes it was expensive.

First, we all know keyboardists, outside of those with large on-stage guitar and bass rigs, tend to be the largest power draw due to necessity. As a result, it's always wise to take steps like you're taking by getting a power conditioner. An expensive solution, but a recommended solution for virtually any rig that draws electricity. Plus, all my power protection is Furman, so we're both like minded.

Now, in an ideal world, which we know clubs aren't, this is how things should go if possible if it were a big show:

Mains, backline, monitor land and FOH are typically all one one huge transformer and power distro, providing a common ground, but more importantly, isolation from lighting.

Lighting is on it's own transformer and power distro. Why? Well, lighting can be quite the power pig. Also, some lights can be noisy, especially LED's. Since lighting and sound can and do work side by side, it's important that they try not to touch from an electronic point of view.

Let's face it, clubs can't be bothered to take such efforts. It costs money. Even with 1 large transformer to provide 3-phase access, you can load things on different phases to try to mimimize noise issues. But putting in that gear is expensive and then as an act, you have to provide your own distro, which can be quite expensive. I'm researching getting one of these distros for myself, but honestly, where I go, it's not needed for the most part.

So, short of that, the best bet is to plug your gear into different circuits. This is what I try to do:
Lights are one circuit, sometimes two. Since I'm moving to LED as much as possible, it's made this much easier to deal with. If I use 2, it's because my follow spots.
Mains are on another circuit if I'm doing large shows. If really big shows, I need 4 20-amp circuits and 2 15's for mains.
Monitors and backline are often on the same circuit. If the acts are using in-ears, I don't need as much power to drive floor wedges and on-stage subs with wedges.
FOH draws over 13 amps often based on load-out, so it's got to have its own circuit.

Now, chances are you're doing the 200 peeps and below thing as most clubs are dinky.(not an insult, just an observation based on around where I live). Your FOH/Monitorland/Monitors/backline and maybe even mains should be one or 2 circuits. Your lighting(and controller) should be a different circuit. If you can, use something like a Furman Merit-series power unit because A: they are cheap, B: they are great units that provide filtering and surge protection. Going both ways, they help clean things up on the power line and minimize SOME of this noise. Merit units can start at $50 for no front panel lighting bar and display. For my racks, I am moving to units that all have front panel display(most do) but also front panel plugs. Almost all the ones I have also have the pull-out lights, which for me are an absolute necessity.

Now, I know Elation makes power distro products. ADJ makes the rack-type power strips(like the Furmans). I can't recommend the Elation stuff because it's overkill for what you want and some requires specialty electrical connections. I don't recommend the ADJ rack power strips because I am totally into Furman for that and will not change. Almost every tour I've seen, done and worked with, it's been Furman almost exclusively.

Don't assume that different outlets are different circuits. I have a device that plugs into the outlet, then you go to the service panel and use the receiver element to find which breaker that sending device is plugged into. It works good. The problem is some places won't let you go anywhere near their service panel. They just get angry when you pop their breakers.

Which reminds me of an event. The rented generator was out of power to run anything else, so we had to tap into house power on two nearby businesses, and we kept popping their breaker because they refused to give us a dedicated circuit. Even front-ending my stuff off a Furman unit didn't help because my load was under 15 amps and they had some sort of heater or something on that circuit. So, having your own front end you can have your breaker pop and not the house's so you can reset and keep on going.